Do any tea party supporters know the answers to these questions?

[bluemoon]

I have the same questions.

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/7499

"...To much of the country, Tea Party supporters look like a bunch of whiners -- over taxes, health care, the federal government, America's future.

So that's why it's important for the people attending the ongoing Tea Party convention in Nashville to establish a more positive direction for their fledgling movement.

With Sarah Palin as a keynote speaker on Saturday, it's obvious this group won't be coming out anytime for a larger or more liberal role for the federal government.

But here's a key question I'd love to see some Tea Party followers answer:

Just what do they want the U.S. government -- and, by extension, President Barack Obama and Congress -- to do?

How big of a tax cut do the Tea Party backers want -- and what federal programs do they want to cut to get there?

Do they want to slice into the Defense Department, Medicaid and Medicare, which account for the bulk of the annual federal budget?

It's time for the people in the Tea Party to get past the bumper sticker quotes, and answer some of the really hard questions facing this nation.

Saying "get your hands off my health care" is a nice sound bite.

But it's a negative rallying cry, not something the rest of the country can rally around -- if the Tea Party believers think they really can make a difference in American politics."

[SJR]

Teabaggers want all the benefits of government but do not want to pay taxes. They need to be hauled off to an island to live IMO.

Bluemoon, you're right that rallying around a negative isn't enough.

The local tea party people that I know are not looking for a tax cut per se, although some of them are really into the fair tax. I don't understand that enough even to comment on it. But they dont want the government to be directly involved in spending to stimulate the economy. They started under GW Bush and the stimulus package added fuel to the fire.

Unfortunately, the national tea party has taken over and twisted the message and my friends no longer want to be associated with the movement.

[SJR]

Originally Posted by Ohbirdlady

Unfortunately, the national tea party has taken over and twisted the message and my friends no longer want to be associated with the movement.

OBL, who do they think is to blame for the takeover? What do they think about Dick Armey? Isn't he the one who started the tea party movement?

No. The tea party movement was a true grassroots movement in the beginning. One of my friends was involved in starting it locally. It was something totally differnet from what you're seeing.

[norphan]

I agree with OBL, most of them were especially concerned about the government spending money on private businesses (to bail them out); paying for the healthcare of nere-do-wells (you know, the unemployed) who will, no doubt, continue to not pay their share; and continue to not listen to the citzens (without noticing that if one tries to listen to the citizens, one hears MANY different voices and opinons).
Periodically, these folks (by "these folks" I mean those who are truly devoted to the country but not all that schooled in the intricasies of government) will be reminded of the founding fathers, they begin to feel that they owe them vigilance, and they start to complain about what they see--no real-world solutions--just complaints.
I've often wanted to be able to sit down with complainers (tea baggers, kids, old people, teachers, politicians, etc.) and just discuss things calmly and reasonably. BUT that just isn't possible to do, nation-wide...so we depend on the media to reach them and look at we have for media?!?

[ohhhhhhhhhm]

The fair tax is the opposite of fair. What they mean by the fair tax is that everyone pays the same tax rate, from those who live on minimum wage to those who live on billions. It means, essentially, that the burden of taxes falls heaviest on those who can't afford to pay it; the opposite of an incremental tax, where the taxes are to fall heaviest on the moneyed classes. That is, of course, why those moneyed classes are the biggest proponents.

[Miss Priss]

Originally Posted by ohhhhhhhhhm

The fair tax is the opposite of fair. What they mean by the fair tax is that everyone pays the same tax rate, from those who live on minimum wage to those who live on billions. It means, essentially, that the burden of taxes falls heaviest on those who can't afford to pay it; the opposite of an incremental tax, where the taxes are to fall heaviest on the moneyed classes. That is, of course, why those moneyed classes are the biggest proponents.

This is not at all what the fair tax is about.

I read the book several years ago.

EVERYONE pays their housing, food, etc costs tax free. Then an equal percentage of their income that's left after those costs are deducted in federal taxes. The housing, etc costs are standard too. So someone who pays a million dollars a year for housing doesn't get to deduct that, they only get to take the standard deduction of say....$12,000 a year.

I'll give you the following example of how it's fair. If the tax on the remaining income is 10%, then a person making $20,000 a year will pay $2,000 and a person making $1,000,000 a year will pay $100,000.

[SJR]

Originally Posted by Miss Priss

So someone who pays a million dollars a year for housing doesn't get to deduct that, they only get to take the standard deduction of say....$12,000 a year.

That doesn't make any sense to me, Miss Priss. Someone who pays a million dollars a year for housing probably owns their home!

[WindwalkerII]

There is one more question I would like to have the TEA party and all Republicans answer.

You keep saying that this administration needs to stop spending so much time on healthcare reform and instead concentrate on creating jobs. How would you go about creating more jobs? Be specific please.

It's real hard to create jobs without spending money.

[Miss Priss]

Originally Posted by SJR

That doesn't make any sense to me, Miss Priss. Someone who pays a million dollars a year for housing probably owns their home!

It's not paid for if they paid a million dollars in house payments for that fiscal year.

[Miss Priss]

I'm not versed in what the tea party people believe. But one thing I'm convinced of is that the majority of Both parties politicians are corrupt, bought and paid for.

Until that changes, then what the american people want is a moot point.

[bluemoon]

Originally Posted by Miss Priss

I'm not versed in what the tea party people believe. But one thing I'm convinced of is that the majority of Both parties politicians are corrupt, bought and paid for.

Until that changes, then what the american people want is a moot point.

I agree

[Sal Monella]

Originally Posted by Ohbirdlady

But they dont want the government to be directly involved in spending to stimulate the economy. They started under GW Bush and the stimulus package added fuel to the fire.

Maybe they could offer a seminar on Economics 101 at their convention?

[norphan]

Originally Posted by WindwalkerII

There is one more question I would like to have the TEA party and all Republicans answer.

You keep saying that this administration needs to stop spending so much time on healthcare reform and instead concentrate on creating jobs. How would you go about creating more jobs?

Well, speaking for "ALL" republicans...I dunno...I want the healthcare to happen!

...and I want the government (national, state, local) to stop laying off people in an effort to save money--those people are just as "unemployed" as the people layed off from the private sector.
...and I want the government to pound some money into the educational system to hire MORE teachers, MORE aides; buy MORE books, MORE educational materials; promote MORE education, and HIGHER education--because I believe that this will employ people in the education system AND those who become MORE educated--and into the future.
...and I want the government to re-place funds into the security systems of the country (as did Prez Clinton) to hire MORE cops, MORE jailers, MORE public defenders, MORE vocational trainers for those in prison, thus creating MORE jobs IN the criminal justice system and MORE jobs for those LEAVING the criminal justice system (from jail time) and in an effort to make time spent in jail useful not abuseful.
...and I'd like to see the government building MORE public housing (but not the huge prison-like buildings that promote a poor lifestyle--individual housing that promotes pride), MORE public roads (this is beginning, thank you), MORE community colleges that provide 4-year educations, MORE, MORE, MORE.
...and I'd like to see the government putting money into medical training of all sorts--the one thing we can count-on is ill-health. Let's get more people who are able to attend to it and re-align the medical system (doctors have managed to claim so much as their domain that could easily be handled by others--hence the horrible cost of "doctoring'").

If we are going to spend public monies, I would like them to go for things that will benefit the public on both personal and profound levels--education and employment do that. Investing in banks, insurance and investment companies only helps a limited number of already over-paid people and encourages the rest of us to believe that maybe, just maybe, we, too, can make our fortunes in the stock market and the lottery lines.

"ALL" of us republicans would like a big dose of reality to be administered...it may be bitter (and expensive) but is well worth the cost of the medicine.

[bluemoon]

I thought fair tax was the elimination of all income taxes and replaced with sales tax on everything. IMO, this will discourage consumers from buying and cheap people like me would pay little taxes.

[Sal Monella]

Originally Posted by bluemoon

I thought fair tax was the elimination of all income taxes and replaced with sales tax on everything. IMO, this will discourage consumers from buying and cheap people like me would pay little taxes.

You're right. Miss Priss misstated how it works.

"The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation,*the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act*(HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation.*It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax *administered primarily*by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system."

It's horribly regressive and unfair, IMO.

[ohhhhhhhhhm]

There are at least three versions of the fair tax, and all of them would move the burden of taxation to the folks who can least afford it.

In my opinion, and that of a number of economists, starting with Keynes, the idea of taxation is to keep all the cash from moving to a single class, and to recover the wealth of the commons for everyone's benefit.

No one makes money anymore without the use of things like air and rail and cargo ships to get things where the markets are. Things like minerals and oil and salts and agricultural products are a product of the commons too; those things are part of the earth we live on, and should be a shared resource. All of this means that either we tax the rich and corporations, or we get ready for even more draconian cuts in government services.

It's time that the US understood that taxes are meant to benefit everyone, and they are the price one pays for living in a civilized society, with potable water and health care and food inspections.

[SJR]

Originally Posted by bluemoon

I thought fair tax was the elimination of all income taxes and replaced with sales tax on everything.

That's what I thought fair tax was also. It would help getting taxes from illegals in this country. They spend lots of money with Walmart!

[Sal Monella]

The only "Fair Tax" Ive heard of -- and the subject of Neil boortz' book-- replaces all federal taxes with a national sales tax.

There are other proposals for flat taxes, vat taxes etc.

[MinnMs]

If we are going to spend public monies, I would like them to go for things that will benefit the public on both personal and profound levels--education and employment do that

And ironically , those are the areas Republicans vote against consistently .

[WindwalkerII]

Norphan it seems that you and I are almost on the same page. However, as MinnMs says, those are the areas Republicans have voted against consistently.

[norphan]

Originally Posted by WindwalkerII

Norphan it seems that you and I are almost on the same page. However, as MinnMs says, those are the areas Republicans have voted against consistently.

That will stop now that I'm the spokesperson for All republicans.

[WindwalkerII]

Originally Posted by norphan

That will stop now that I'm the spokesperson for All republicans.

There is a difference between the average Republican and most of those who are Senators and Representatives. The office holders have been consistantly voting no on everything. It does not necessarily follow that all Republicans agree with them. Sometimes we forget that.

[staci]

Originally Posted by WindwalkerII

Norphan it seems that you and I are almost on the same page. However, as MinnMs says, those are the areas Republicans have voted against consistently.

I agree with your post 100% Norphan - and as a centrist democrat I think these things should be front and center of the Presidents agenda -

...and I want the government (national, state, local) to stop laying off people in an effort to save money--those people are just as "unemployed" as the people layed off from the private sector.
...and I want the government to pound some money into the educational system to hire MORE teachers, MORE aides; buy MORE books, MORE educational materials; promote MORE education, and HIGHER education--because I believe that this will employ people in the education system AND those who become MORE educated--and into the future.
...and I want the government to re-place funds into the security systems of the country (as did Prez Clinton) to hire MORE cops, MORE jailers, MORE public defenders, MORE vocational trainers for those in prison, thus creating MORE jobs IN the criminal justice system and MORE jobs for those LEAVING the criminal justice system (from jail time) and in an effort to make time spent in jail useful not abuseful.
...and I'd like to see the government building MORE public housing (but not the huge prison-like buildings that promote a poor lifestyle--individual housing that promotes pride), MORE public roads (this is beginning, thank you), MORE community colleges that provide 4-year educations, MORE, MORE, MORE.
...and I'd like to see the government putting money into medical training of all sorts--the one thing we can count-on is ill-health. Let's get more people who are able to attend to it and re-align the medical system (doctors have managed to claim so much as their domain that could easily be handled by others--hence the horrible cost of "doctoring'").

If we are going to spend public monies, I would like them to go for things that will benefit the public on both personal and profound levels--education and employment do that. Investing in banks, insurance and investment companies only helps a limited number of already over-paid people and encourages the rest of us to believe that maybe, just maybe, we, too, can make our fortunes in the stock market and the lottery lines.

This is what we need here in this country. But I bet not one single thing mentioned here would ever be part of the Tea Party Agenda. This might be old school republican values - pre-Regan Republican values.

[Sal Monella]

When were any of those things on the Republicans' agenda?

[norphan]

Originally Posted by staci

This is what we need here in this country. But I bet not one single thing mentioned here would ever be part of the Tea Party Agenda. This might be old school republican values - pre-Regan Republican values.

True, I AM an old-school republican...I got most of my political from my grandparents, in the '50s. That is why I am so unhappy with these un-schooled, current republicans. We used to disagree with dems about how best to move ahead. Now we just disagree with democrats.

[ohhhhhhhhhm]

My son was a die-hard Progressive Conservative (there's an oxymoron for you). He no longer is. When I asked him why not (yes, we talk politics over dinners together. His girlfriend talks to my mother), his comment was that the conservatives are making a determined effort to follow the Bush policies, and that was somewhere that he simply couldn't, in good conscience, go.

I, of course, have gotten more radical with age, and am now somewhere to the left of Ghandi.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by bluemoon

I thought fair tax was the elimination of all income taxes and replaced with sales tax on everything. IMO, this will discourage consumers from buying and cheap people like me would pay little taxes.

Sounds good but since we are a consumer economy---that means our economy would truly be screwed for all time!! And can I presume you advocate a nudist society so that those with little money can save on taxes by not buying clothing?????????????

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by SJR

That's what I thought fair tax was also. It would help getting taxes from illegals in this country. They spend lots of money with Walmart!

Illegals also pay sales taxes which now exist...............they also pay property taxes (through rental payments) and many have social security accounts in to which they pay (but never reclaim) since they are illegals! That many pay no income taxes is quite frankly the fault of greedy employers (mostly our fellow citizens) who want to get by on ascertaining that employees are legal (and therefore having to pay them at least
mandated minimum salaries-having to pay employers portion of social security, disability insurance etc). Problem of illegals and taxes is IMO the fault of employer and not employee!!

[P.S.]

Norphan wants "MORE, MORE, MORE"? I thought Republicans were against spending?

...and I want the government (national, state, local) to stop laying off people in an effort to save money--those people are just as "unemployed" as the people layed off from the private sector.

How do you do that when your budget was cut and you can't pay their salary?

[bluemoon]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Sounds good but since we are a consumer economy---that means our economy would truly be screwed for all time!! And can I presume you advocate a nudist society so that those with little money can save on taxes by not buying clothing?????????????

I never said I liked the fair tax, I was just explaining what I thought it meant.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by norphan

True, I AM an old-school republican...I got most of my political from my grandparents, in the '50s. That is why I am so unhappy with these un-schooled, current republicans. We used to disagree with dems about how best to move ahead. Now we just disagree with democrats.

I WAS an old school Republican! I was so angry about Watergate that I left the Republican Party. The complete take-over (IMO) of the party by ex Southern Democrats and their "social agenda" has completely soured me on the Republican Party. IMO, it is no longer the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower etc. It is no the Grand Old Party!!

[norphan]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Norphan wants "MORE, MORE, MORE"? I thought Republicans were against spending?



How do you do that when your budget was cut and you can't pay their salary?

Actually, repubs are supposed to be against "foolish" spending--spending that accomplishes nothing. That is why we are not big on welfare and social programs--they seem only to encourage people to need to be cared-for.

BUT we ARE believers in biz principles--you have to spend money to make money. Provide good health and your citizens will be at work. Provide education and your citizens will be worth their wages. Provide safe food and your citizens will flourish. Provide security and your citizens will not fear leaving their homes to build your widgets and purchase your services. Privide good roads and your citizens will go where they are needed. Provide quality housing and your citizens will be proud of their homes. Care for the children and they will grow to be good citizens.

We understand spending with purpose but spending to continue poor conditions seems foolish. There is always room for "charity" in our lives but it seems that mandating such is a wrong idea.

[MinnMs]

BUT we ARE believers in biz principles--you have to spend money to make money. Provide good health and your citizens will be at work. Provide education and your citizens will be worth their wages. Provide safe food and your citizens will flourish. Provide security and your citizens will not fear leaving their homes to build your widgets and purchase your services. Privide good roads and your citizens will go where they are needed. Provide quality housing and your citizens will be proud of their homes. Care for the children and they will grow to be good citizens.

Hmmmmm.....the only thing on your list the Republicans today seem to espouse is "security". More than willing to fund jails and wars...the others, not so much.In fact, hardly at all.

[chickypea]

Originally Posted by MinnMs

Hmmmmm.....the only thing on your list the Republicans today seem to espouse is "security". More than willing to fund jails and wars...the others, not so much.In fact, hardly at all.

Very true- that is all the current crop wants to spend money on... what are they so afraid of?

[jimzmum]

Originally Posted by chickypea

Very true- that is all the current crop wants to spend money on... what are they so afraid of?

Mirrors.

[chickypea]

Originally Posted by jimzmum

Mirrors.

I was thinking garlic, and crucifixes.

[ohhhhhhhhhm]

I was thinking of something more prosaic........like torches and pitchforks.

[norphan]

I LIKE garlic so I'm okay, right? ...right? ...hey, I'm okay, right?

[Tootie5347]

Originally Posted by MinnMs

Hmmmmm.....the only thing on your list the Republicans today seem to espouse is "security". More than willing to fund jails and wars...the others, not so much.In fact, hardly at all.

Maybe because so many of them profit from one and live in the other.

[cathyb]

Originally Posted by norphan

I LIKE garlic so I'm okay, right? ...right? ...hey, I'm okay, right?

You are okay in my book!

[WindwalkerII]

Originally Posted by norphan

I LIKE garlic so I'm okay, right? ...right? ...hey, I'm okay, right?

Right.

Originally Posted by norphan

I LIKE garlic so I'm okay, right? ...right? ...hey, I'm okay, right?

You're great, but could you stand back a few feet? Thanks.

[norphan]

Originally Posted by MinnMs

Hmmmmm.....the only thing on your list the Republicans today seem to espouse is "security". More than willing to fund jails and wars...the others, not so much.In fact, hardly at all.

Lately, so many have been taking their vacations in the above mentioned security facilities that you can't blame them for wanting to "fix them up" a little--